From the White House situation room, to shaping the Obama administration’s national security communication – few people have had a closer view of the forces shaping modern America than Ben Rhodes.

As Barack Obama’s speechwriter and Deputy National Security Adviser, Rhodes helped craft some of the defining messages of the Obama era and played a central role in major foreign policy decisions, including the Iran nuclear deal. In his new book All We Say, he argues that speeches reveal the enduring battle over American identity, who belongs, who holds power, and what kind of country America wants to be.

In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Krishnan Guru-Murthy talks to Ben about why Donald Trump succeeded where others failed, whether speeches still matter in the age of social media, the backlash against Barack Obama, the rise of populism, and the lessons history offers for today’s political turmoil.